everyone was saying free mandela and we never seen mandela. when he walked out of the jail and a movement energized by winnie he walked out of there but changed the country from rancor and hostility and said no we're going to reconcile. this became a viable winning tactic in the life of someone like barack obama that i think never left him and i would say helped to lead him towards the kind of change and hope dynamic that he helped to make central in his own political career. so i don't think it's a leap to say the impact that the spirit of mandela and that movement had on our own president. >> katty kay? >> i just want to ask rick something about the international concerns about mandela when he came out of prison because as you point out he was committed to arms struggle in south africa. he refused to give up the arms struggle as a negotiating tactic to get him out of prison. i was in cape town the day he walked out of prison and we didn't know what nelson mandela was going to be like. was he going to be the marxist that went into pry son, wa